Notes from 3-4 August 2000 meeting

 

Jasinski - need a roadmap - how to attack problem -
    focus on science
    need better justification requirements
    water available -- flooding, global water balance

Show why effort has to be done with satellite - what can't telemetry data from surface measurements provide?

Justify economically as well as scientifically - science objective, water resources management

De-emphasize technology at this point except to determine what is available

Identify potential field experiments/trade study missions

What is the added value of the measurements?

Put forward global element

Define trade study to give ammunition

Working group should be open to all interested parties

Two possible approaches for funding -- 
    NRA/Program Manager set aside (no separate hydrology NRA)
    Internal/external monies -- NASA/GSFC

IIP - instrument incubator program (September)

Koren

Define potential variables to be measured - expected resolution/accuracy

Promote research in applying satellite measured variables to river runoff prediction

Comments:

Vorosmarty - use US data to come up with a good flood prediction technology

Lettenmaier - plan major river runoff studies (NCEP) using ETA model

Yorke

Have assets to do ground truth

Stream bank technology - could cut cost with tower mounting safety

Vorosmarty

Web site is available at UNH -- LSHP.gsfc.nasa.gov/post2002/hydrasat/hydrasat2.html

Do not have corresponding satellite precursor and gaging station data

How can we improve understanding of water supply
How will understanding affect mankind
HydraSat will increase knowledge
Will help in detecting flooding

What is the economic benefit; what is the scientific benefit

Comments: benefit project by tying military to situation

Be sure technology is not driving project - science driven - perhaps have relationship between two

Birkett

Altimeters cannot give wetland discharge information

What kind of errors - [surface water storage, global averaging, what is inland water budget number - Lettenmaier]

Need input for context of budgets

Safaeinili - talk based on reviews of SAR

Summary of goals/challengers -- Plan B

SAR inflatable antenna - spectacular beam from surface

Driving requirements - science value/knowledge - orientation of satellite to normal of river

Slope, width, peridyne

Footprint issue - will need to be acknowledged

Emmitt - reviewing/responding to scenario C

Sees system as a multi instrument

Getting useful surface velocities during bank river overflow situations

Model/data assimilation studies - trade studies

Bjerklies - space-based technology measuring river discharge

Water depth/channel resistance - cannot be remotely measured

Synthetic ratings can simulate real ratings

If you have synthetic rating can create geometric rating

Fekete

Atmospheric science should include discharge information

Difficulty downloading/finding USGS telemetered data

Need to push bank full width down

Trying to develop routing scheme

Comments:

Issue of discharge vs width

River mouth runoff only a part of the issue - is there a data base of river widths available?


White Paper Discussion

Jasinski -

    Clear definition of perimeter requirements
    Clear definition of scientific justification
    Feasibility study - lot of hand waving - appraisal paper very good
    List priorities to test scientific approaches

Birkett -

    Each science objective listed with perimeter/definition

Rainey -

    Survey existing assets - value added - do more work assessing need

Houser -

    Define goals of document - goals of working group - are they the same?

    Is there any purpose to working document created earlier?

Jasinski -

    GEWEX - propose studies, field work - too early for design phase - science feasibility study phase

Houser -

    What is the purpose of document at headquarters now? There is a tremendous need for document design of satellite -- simple and to the point - don't specify technology

Jasinski -

    Look at submitting a trade studies proposal under GEWEX

Bjerklie -

    What is the science need
    How to use science to interpret results received

Lettenmaier -

    Reluctant to put technology to the side

Jasinski -

    Too early to push design - technology questions can be flushed out on abilities of current technology

Emmitt -

    There is a lot of foundation there - more hydrology to hydrology and not outside the community

Lettenmaier -

    GEWEX plan - global water report - look at

Vorosmarty -

    Research is being held to ESE science questions

Jasinski -

    Are we looking at an operational or experimental satellite?

Lettenmaier -

    Would have said experimental earlier but not sure now

Houser -

    ESSP - next announcement will be different - will look closer at technology
    May specify certain type of satellite

Vorosmarty -

    ES projects or floods?

Emmitt -

    Roadmap showing stages/applications with application phase - demonstrate new technology - should sketch out a roadmap to set strategies

Raney -

    Need to make strong science case

Vorosmarty -

    List out key blocks and fill in

Note: See below

• Earth System Sciences

    basin mouth vs spatially distributed stems
    accuracy, timing
    budget closure
    support to climate (p-e, ds/dr)
    biogeochemistry modeling
    climate oscillations and land surface responses
    wetland inundation
    ocean forcings: thermohaline circulation, anoxia in coastal zone
    continental storage deltas
    support to satellite precipitation retrievals
    sea level rise mitigation
    "globalize" hydrology

• Water Resources

    water supply: industry, domestic, agriculture, navigation
    reservoir storages
    storage of groundwater
    anthropogenic changes and impact on hydrographs
    floodplain definition - floodway management
    habitat for fish, birds
    biodiversity
    human disease vectoring
    pollution
    transboundary rivers
    intentional lake draining
    deltas, filling of reservoirs
    sediment, land degradation

• Operational Hydrology

    overcome data denials/data processing delays
    support for NWP and re-analysis
    military logistics
    floods (monitoring, forecasting)/droughts
    intelligence (e.g., civil strife, water use, transboundary rivers)
    recreational water resource management (e.g., dam release for canoeing)

Is there added value of HYDRASAT to the Soil mission/GEWEX?

4 August -

Miller -

    Review of preliminary river current measurements with coherent Doppler lidar carried out by staff at MSFC, UAH, USRA and GHCC.

Alsdorf -

    SAR has flown over the Amazon basin
    Dynamics of river need to be concentrated on - floodplain vs river bank
    Amazon - what is the bank - look at hydrology frame
    Japan will be flying AFLOS - should try to work with SAR
    JERS/JPL - making mosiacs of several areas
    Inventory data base

Harding -

    Questions using laser altimetry as part of trade studies
    Upcoming projects which might aid project -- Vegetation-canopy
        lidar, ICESAT (Ice Cloud and Land Elevation Satellite)

Emmitt - OSSEs

    Gives relevance of various measuring systems
    Prepares community for data use
    Could design stand alone 1^st order hydrology OSSE (form group to look into)

Current models being looked at are: Land/Snow, Soil Moisture


White Paper - what is the benefit of increasing knowledge of various variables?

Articulate science justification in verbage form not table

Do literature searches

Need supporting information:
    river widths
    what do rivers look like globally
    look into simulation
    current state of knowledge, what will mission add
    river statistics inventory

Surface-water monitoring issue - cross fertilize with other issues - aerosols, carbons, etc.

Satellite - global not spatial

Jasinski -- can't just make a list of great benefits - establish a target first

NRA response -- 
    error budget analysis
    fundamental question - can it be done from space (field oriented)

Deficiencies which could be addressed under proposal to meet NRA

    Global river inventory (lake, wetlands, etc. including existing gages)
    Field experiments
    Alternate strategy for remote determination of discharge
    Cost benefit analysis/OSSE -- possibly combine as OSE
    Extent of global wetland, inundation (duration and extent)
    Time/space sampling trade studies
    Model development/analysis to connect hydrology model output (discharge) 
        to measurements of grid scale -- connection of runoff due to subsurface
        storage

Owe reviewers response to criticisms - 2 months

Responsible individuals:

    Scenario A: Birkett/Yungin
    Scenario B: Yungin/Rodrigues
    Scenario C: Emmitt
    Scenario D: Plant

    Science background: Lettenmaier

Need for science justification -- put paper out

Will need to corner Ghossem/Goldin

Action items:
    Post original draft, reviewer comments, response to reviews

    Houser - get HydraSat published - either as NASA report or in EOS

    Longer term organization for Working Group - develop a template that is 
        heading towards proposal formulation

    Develop web site

How should objective paper be written?

    Start with executive summary and beef up -- Lettenmaier/Vorosmarty

    Houser - come up with science justification

Next meeting (GCEP/GAP) - coordinate with LSHP - 12-16 February 2001 -- put out notifications of meeting -- announcement in EOS, poster at AGU (Vorosmarty/Lettenmaier), invitations to NASA Hdq. and international community (ESA/Japanese), technology community

Travel funds: have cut-off date and divide funds among requests

Sub-groups:

Research - Houser/Jasinski/Vorosmarty
                        Technology to help formulate white paper/justification
Application - Emmitt

Action item list:

    Potential NRA responses
    White paper II
    Other funding sources
    Sketch schedule/roadmap - 5-year plan - Emmitt/Jasinski/Houser